Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Michael Liebreich

Michael Liebreich Profile Photo

Co-host, Cleaning Up Podcast

Michael is an acknowledged thought leader on clean energy, mobility, technology, climate, sustainability and finance. He is Co-Managing partner of EcoPragma Capital and CEO of Liebreich Associates. Michael is also co-host and founder of 'Cleaning Up' a podcast and YouTube Series.

Former roles include member of the UK’s Taskforce on Energy Efficiency, chairing the subgroup on industry and an advisor to the UK Board of Trade, an advisor to the UN on Sustainable Energy for All, and a member of the board of Transport for London. He is also the founder of and a regular Senior Contributor to BloombergNEF.

Are Solar And Batteries Undermining Australia’s Grid? Deep Dive Australia 03: Marc England
July 13, 2026

Are Solar And Batteries Undermining Australia’s Grid? Deep Dive Australia 03: Marc England

Australia's electricity networks are entering a new era. As rooftop solar, battery storage and electric vehicles demand reshape the grid, the role of distribution networks is changing from simply delivering electricity to actively enabling a smarter, more resilient and affordable energy system.For the third episode of our Deep Dive Australia series, Michael sits down with Marc England, CEO of Ausgrid, one of Australia's largest electricity distribution businesses, to explore what that transf...
Southeast Asia's Leapfrog to Clean Tech | Ep265: Marie Cheong
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July 8, 2026

Southeast Asia's Leapfrog to Clean Tech | Ep265: Marie Cheong

South and Southeast Asia face a different challenge to many developed economies. As the regions continue to grow, so too does demand for energy, transport and industry. The question is whether that growth can be powered by cleaner technologies from the start.In the second of our episodes recorded from Singapore, Michael meets Marie Cheong, founding partner at 100x100, a climate tech venture builder and VC for South and Southeast Asia. Previously, Marie co-founded WaveMaker Impact, where she ...
Australia Loves Solar, So Why The Diesel Addiction? Deep Dive Australia 02: Chris Bowen
July 6, 2026

Australia Loves Solar, So Why The Diesel Addiction? Deep Dive Australia 02: Chris Bowen

Australia is navigating an extraordinarily complex energy transition. It is both a major exporter of fossil fuels and a global leader in rooftop solar, while recent disruption to fuel supplies has reinforced the importance of energy security alongside decarbonisation. As the country prepares to co-host COP31 alongside Türkiye, the choices it makes will have implications well beyond its borders.This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Chris Bowen, Australia's Minister for Cl...
Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon
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July 1, 2026

Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon

Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the world, yet plays a unique role as one of Asia’s main financial and oil refining hubs. So how is it using its influence to help or hinder the transition?Ravi Menon has spent his career at the heart of Singapore’s economic and financial strategy, serving as Managing Director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (the country’s central bank) before becoming the country’s Ambassador for Climate Action.In this conversation with Michael Liebre...
How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller
June 29, 2026

How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller

Today, Cleaning Up launches its Deep Dive Australia series. Featuring conversations with nine leaders of the climate and clean energy scene, the series explores where Australia is leading the world, where it is not, and how it got there.This is an important moment for Australia. The country was extraordinarily exposed to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, being the largest per capita importer of diesel in the world. It's also uniquely dependent on China as the destination of its mineral ex...
⁠From Iran to Paris: How The US Makes And Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: Secretary John Kerry
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June 24, 2026

⁠From Iran to Paris: How The US Makes And Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: Secretary John Kerry

Since Donald Trump returned to the Presidency in 2025, the US has become increasingly isolationist. It has pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the IPCC, left the World Health Organisation, as well as a whole host of other international organisations and agencies. So, when President Trump leaves the White House, will the US be able to rebuild trust on the international stage?This week on Cleaning Up, former US Secretary of State and Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry ...
How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen
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June 10, 2026

How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen

Today, wind power accounts for just under 10% of all electricity globally, around the same as solar, recently overtaking nuclear power. 20 years ago, the figure was under 1%.In that time, the sector’s leadership has moved around from Europe to the US to Asia, but one specialist European manufacturer has stayed in the leading group throughout: Vestas — a member of the global wind energy aristocracy.This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Henrik Andersen, CEO of Vestas, to...
RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.
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June 3, 2026

RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.

For more than 15 years, the RCP8.5 climate scenario has shaped headlines, policy decisions, financial stress tests and public understanding of climate risk. Now, the scientific community has declared it implausible. So what comes next?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Professor Roger Pielke Jr. back to explore why RCP 8.5 became the dominant "business as usual" climate scenario, and what its demise means for climate research, policymaking and public debate.They discuss...
Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall
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May 27, 2026

Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall

As electricity demand rises and renewable generation continues to expand, the same question keeps arising: how do we keep power systems reliable, affordable and resilient?This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Håkan Agnevall, CEO of Wärtsilä, to discuss the changing role of flexible generation in modern electricity systems, the growing importance of grid stability, and why balancing technologies will be critical as renewables become an ever-larger share of the global energy mix.They e...
Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
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May 20, 2026

Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

In this special episode of Cleaning Up from San Francisco Climate Week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack the geopolitical shocks reshaping the global energy transition.From escalating tensions in the Gulf and their impact on oil and LNG markets, to China’s accelerating electrification revolution, the conversation explores how energy security, industrial strategy and climate ambition are colliding in real time.Bryony and Michael debate whether the West can realistically com...
India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande
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May 13, 2026

India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande

The energy system is not about supply and exports and generation and distribution. It's about how we use energy in our daily lives and workplaces.The so-called energy trilemma, affordability versus reliability versus environmental performance looks very theoretical in the boardrooms of an NGO or a consulting company. But it's not theoretical at all for someone struggling to run their life, do their job and pay their bills. What we need is a system focused on usage, not on supply.Joining ...
Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler
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May 6, 2026

Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler

Every single scenario for the future that looks at a cleaner energy system has electrification growing to 60, 70, 80% or more, and yet we don't make rapid progress. Why?One of the reasons we don't make progress lies in narratives and culture wars. We hear about heat pumps that don't work, we hear about electric vehicles that don't work, we hear that electrification can't work for high temperature heat and so on, and then we hear a narrative that there is a false solution that will work much ...
The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol
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April 15, 2026

The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol

The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications.But there is also another story, which is the long term rift between the U.S. and the rest of the world about whethe...
⁠Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch
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April 8, 2026

⁠Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch

How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central banks should and can respond to inflation, energy volatility, and climate transition.From th...
Heavy Engineering Solutions for High-Emission Problems | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras
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March 25, 2026

Heavy Engineering Solutions for High-Emission Problems | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back into the conversation.Kakaras draws on decades in both academia and industry to explain how decis...
Can We Stop Data Centres Breaking The Grid? Ep249: Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith
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March 19, 2026

Can We Stop Data Centres Breaking The Grid? Ep249: Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Varun Sivaram and Steve Smith to explore one of the most urgent, and overlooked, challenges of the AI revolution: how to power it without breaking the grid.As AI demand explodes, hyperscale data centres are emerging as massive, inflexible loads, rivaling entire cities. But do they have to be a burden on the grid?This conversation dives into a groundbreaking trial led by Emerald AI in partnership with National Grid and NVIDIA...
Iran Will Reshape Oil, Gas & Clean Energy For Years To Come | Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
March 6, 2026

Iran Will Reshape Oil, Gas & Clean Energy For Years To Come | Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

Bryony Worthington and Michael Liebreich give their analysis of the impact of the conflict in Iran on global energy markets. How will it impact the Middle East, Europe, Asia, the US, and will it force countries back to coal, or accelerate the clean energy transition?This episode was recorded Thursday March 5.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gila...
⁠⁠How To Build Quickly In An Era of Fossil Fuel Shocks | Ep247: Hilde Tonne
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March 4, 2026

⁠⁠How To Build Quickly In An Era of Fossil Fuel Shocks | Ep247: Hilde Tonne

How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities behind the energy transition. From offshore wind and nuclear to grid bottlenecks and data centre dem...
Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade
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Feb. 18, 2026

Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies.From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of the decade. He also shares how EDP transformed itself from an 80% coal-based utility into a comp...
The Billion-Tonne Promise of Carbon Dioxide Removal Isn't Working Out | Ep244: Robert Höglund
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Feb. 11, 2026

The Billion-Tonne Promise of Carbon Dioxide Removal Isn't Working Out | Ep244: Robert Höglund

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with carbon removal insider Robert Höglund, CEO of Marginal Carbon, co-founder of CDR.fyi and architect of MilkyWire’s Climate Transformation Fund, for a deep dive into what’s working and what’s not in carbon dioxide removal and corporate climate action.Drawing on five years of hands-on experimentation funding everything from biochar to direct air capture and policy advocacy, Höglund challenges the dominant “speed and scale” narrative. In...
The World Decides: Clean Energy or Oil & Gas? | Ep243: Damilola Ogunbiyi
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Feb. 4, 2026

The World Decides: Clean Energy or Oil & Gas? | Ep243: Damilola Ogunbiyi

What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damilola Ogunbiyi, CEO and UN Special Representative for Sustainable Energy for All and Co-Chair of U...
⁠Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice
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Jan. 21, 2026

⁠Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice

Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe?Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rapidly. It is set to grow from 1.5 billion people today to 2.5 billion by 2050. And it could reach...
Why Is The US So Obsessed With Venezuelan Oil? Ep239: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
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Jan. 7, 2026

Why Is The US So Obsessed With Venezuelan Oil? Ep239: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington

Is the link between oil and geopolitics starting to diminish? Has climate consensus fractured just as clean energy hits escape velocity? And are batteries, not barrels, becoming the true source of power and security?In the first episode of Season 17 of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack a turbulent start to 2026. From shock geopolitical moves in the Americas and riots in the Middle East to the curious calm of a $60 oil price, they explore whether fossil fuels still ...
Honey, I Shrunk the Oil And Gas Sector | Ep237: Lord John Browne
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Dec. 10, 2025

Honey, I Shrunk the Oil And Gas Sector | Ep237: Lord John Browne

What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Lord Browne of Madingley — former CEO of BP and one of the earliest voices inside Big Oil to publicly call for emissions reductions from fossil fuels.Recorded in front of a live audience in London, the discussion explores how geopolitics, energy security, AI, and r...
Inside Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre: A Green Giant Rises | Ep235: Robert Dunn
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Nov. 26, 2025

Inside Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre: A Green Giant Rises | Ep235: Robert Dunn

What does it take to build Europe’s largest and most sustainable data-centre campus, from an empty plot of land to a 1.2-gigawatt giant of AI? How do you future-proof a facility when chip technology is evolving at breakneck speed? And what happens when the site of former coal-fired power plant becomes a global hub for AI?In this special, on-location episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich visits Sines, Portugal, where Start Campus is transforming the site of a decommissioned coal plant int...
⁠The €65 Billion Plan to Modernise Germany’s Grids | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens
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Nov. 12, 2025

⁠The €65 Billion Plan to Modernise Germany’s Grids | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens

What does it take to future-proof Europe’s electricity grid? How do you finance €65 billion in infrastructure without driving up consumer electricity costs? And can the permitting process be sped up to become fast enough for the energy transition?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Tim Meyerjürgens, CEO of TenneT Germany, the country’s largest transmission system operator, to explore the physics and finance behind decarbonising Europe’s power networks.From billion-...
Why There'll Never Be A Hydrogen Economy | Ep232: Erik Rakhou
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Nov. 5, 2025

Why There'll Never Be A Hydrogen Economy | Ep232: Erik Rakhou

Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates Erik Rakhou, author of Touching Hydrogen Future, in a no-holds-barred discussion moderated by Andrew Critchlow of S&P Global Commodity Insights.Together, they contest one of the most contentious topics in energy today: hydrogen. Liebreich argues that hydrogen is plagued by physics-driven co...
The Electrotech Revolution Will Not Be Fossilized | Ep231: Kingsmill Bond
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Nov. 3, 2025

The Electrotech Revolution Will Not Be Fossilized | Ep231: Kingsmill Bond

What if the energy transition isn’t about sacrifice and belt-tightening, but abundance? Are electrified technologies ready to replace the polluting fossil fuel system we’re so reliant on? And what will it mean for western nations if they can’t keep up with China?In this special bonus episode of Cleaning Up, recorded live in Berlin, Michael Liebreich sits down with Kingsmill Bond, strategist at Ember, to unpack The Electrotech Revolution, a powerful new framing of the global shift from a foss...
COP30: Caught Between An Electrostate and A Petrostate | Ep230: Rachel Kyte
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Oct. 29, 2025

COP30: Caught Between An Electrostate and A Petrostate | Ep230: Rachel Kyte

This week on Cleaning Up, we welcome back Rachel Kyte, the UK’s Special Representative for Climate Change, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of global climate diplomacy ahead of COP30 in Belém, Brazil.Rachel brings decades of experience — from leading Sustainable Energy for All under Ban Ki-Moon to senior roles at the World Bank and IFC — to unpack how countries, investors, and institutions are navigating the new era of implementation.Together, Michael and Rachel explore:H...
How To Move Away From Fossil Fuels Faster — Bryony Grills Michael on The Pragmatic Climate Reset | Ep228
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Oct. 15, 2025

How To Move Away From Fossil Fuels Faster — Bryony Grills Michael on The Pragmatic Climate Reset | Ep228

This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to unpack Part 2 of “The Pragmatic Climate Reset.”Michael lays out a bold vision for cutting thro...
The £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew
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Oct. 8, 2025

The £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew

What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year career. Together they explore the UK’s £60 billion plan to deliver Clean Power by 2030, the race to b...
Less Doom, More Data: Debunking the Biggest Climate Myths | Ep223: Dr. Hannah Ritchie
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Sept. 17, 2025

Less Doom, More Data: Debunking the Biggest Climate Myths | Ep223: Dr. Hannah Ritchie

Is the future of clean energy and climate solutions brighter than we think? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Hannah Ritchie — Deputy Editor at Our World in Data, researcher at the Oxford Martin School, and author of her new book, Clearing the Air.In Clearing the Air, Hannah tackles 50 of the most common myths and misconceptions about climate solutions, from “Isn’t climate action too polarised and politically divisive to fix?” to “What happens when the wind does...
Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222
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Sept. 10, 2025

Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222

What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australia through fierce political battles over climate policy to now spearheading renewable projects th...
The End of Fossil Fuels Is Inevitable | Ep221: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
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Aug. 13, 2025

The End of Fossil Fuels Is Inevitable | Ep221: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington

What if the energy transition isn't a race, but a steady march toward the end of fossil fuel usage? Do we need to move more like the tortoise, and less like the hare? And in a world of competing narratives, who gets to define "pragmatism"?In this season finale of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack these questions as they review Season 15's most compelling conversations about energy transformation, and celebrate five years of Cleaning Up.They dissect the cu...
Audioblog 15: The Pragmatic Climate Reset Part 1 — The Energy Transition Is Not Dead
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Aug. 6, 2025

Audioblog 15: The Pragmatic Climate Reset Part 1 — The Energy Transition Is Not Dead

In February, veteran fossil industry advisor Dan Yergin and two co-authors published a piece called The Troubled Transition. In it they dismiss the idea that there is or can ever be an energy transition, anchored on the fact that fossil fuels contributed 85% to so-called primary energy in 1990 and still contribute 80% today.Needless to say, their argument has been widely amplified by the oil and gas industry. They conclude with a demand for a new approach – which they call a “pragmatic path”...
The Inflation Induction Act: How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler
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July 30, 2025

The Inflation Induction Act: How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler

Is the US about to enter a new era of energy inflation? Can technological progress outpace political regression? Are we witnessing the permanent end of America's climate ambitions?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Ethan Zindler, former climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, now head of countries and policy at BloombergNEF, to dissect the dramatic shifts in US energy policy.Fresh from the passage of the "One Big Beautiful Bill," Zindler reveals how ...
The Best Markets for Wind and Solar Are Not Where You Think | Ep216: Daniel Calderon
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July 10, 2025

The Best Markets for Wind and Solar Are Not Where You Think | Ep216: Daniel Calderon

In a world where 17% of all electricity is generated from wind and solar and where 93% of all new capacity added to the grid is from renewables, it can be easy to forget that countries got their first wind and solar resources within just the last few years.And in fact, some countries are still waiting for their first.Today on Cleaning Up, we’re joined by Daniel Calderon, Founder and Managing Partner of Alcazar Energy Partners. Daniel has made it a specialty of going into countries overlo...
Is There A Future Without Oil & Gas? Ep214: Ben van Beurden
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June 25, 2025

Is There A Future Without Oil & Gas? Ep214: Ben van Beurden

Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet.This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global...
⁠Hydrogen Subsidies, Clean Power & Fixing Spain's Blackouts | Ep212: EU Commissioner Dan Jørgensen
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June 11, 2025

⁠Hydrogen Subsidies, Clean Power & Fixing Spain's Blackouts | Ep212: EU Commissioner Dan Jørgensen

What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation.In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including redu...
Renewables Are Here To Stay. Get Over It. | Ep211: Antonio Cammisecra
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June 4, 2025

Renewables Are Here To Stay. Get Over It. | Ep211: Antonio Cammisecra

The world's electricity system is transforming: We're integrating more and more variable renewables. Fossil plants are running fewer hours. Demand is growing everywhere, including in the developed world, as we electrify transport and heating, and AI data centers elbow their way onto the grid.Some people find this very threatening but not Antonio Cammisecra, CEO of ContourGlobal. CounterGlobal is a leading independent power producer who is well on their way to transition away from coal to ele...
Can You Run a Grid Entirely On Renewables? Ep208: Anders Lindberg
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May 14, 2025

Can You Run a Grid Entirely On Renewables? Ep208: Anders Lindberg

Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels?"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050.Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument c...
Uniper Rising: Can Germany's Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis
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April 30, 2025

Uniper Rising: Can Germany's Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis

When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those.Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was one of the funders of the built-but-never-used Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline that connects Russia to...
Trump vs The Transition, The Pope’s Climate Legacy & The High Price of UK Electricity — Ep205
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April 23, 2025

Trump vs The Transition, The Pope’s Climate Legacy & The High Price of UK Electricity — Ep205

In 100 short days, the world has transformed. Since the reelection of President Donald Trump, US federal climate policy has largely been abandoned, with the government seeking to reopen coal-fired power plants and lower environmental standards.An escalating trade war and global tariffs has sent the rest of the world reeling and threatened the global financial system with collapse. China has come under particular fire, but the US has also targeted its closest allies and neighbours — Canada, M...
We Built a Solar System That's Saving Babies’ Lives — Ep204: Project Bo, Sierra Leone
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April 9, 2025

We Built a Solar System That's Saving Babies’ Lives — Ep204: Project Bo, Sierra Leone

In Sierra Leone, a 20-minute power cut can be the difference between life and death for newborn babies.In 2013, an extraordinary doctor called Dr Niall Conroy set up a neonatal intensive care unit at the Bo Government Hospital, in Sierra Leone's second largest city, and set about training the staff to give the best possible care to the desperately vulnerable babies who were admitted. But there was one problem he couldn't solve: electricity.Babies need warmth, and that means electrically ...
Can Europe Survive the Transition To Renewables? Ep201: Nikos Tsafos
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March 19, 2025

Can Europe Survive the Transition To Renewables? Ep201: Nikos Tsafos

How does Europe get cheap energy again? Are climate goals at odds with the need to remain economically competitive? Are we about to see an empowered and emboldened Europe, ready to take on China and the US?Barely five years into the 2020s, this decade is already shaping up to be one of the most turbulent since the Second World War. As we record this episode, the US has just slapped 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum, prompting swift retaliation from Europe and Canada.The energy landscape ...
⁠The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah
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Feb. 26, 2025

⁠The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah

How can the U.S. government bridge the gap between clean energy innovation and large-scale deployment? Will the Trump administration accelerate progress or put up roadblocks for clean tech? And how can the U.S. stay competitive with China, which already holds a commanding lead in the sector?Jigar Shah joins Cleaning Up fresh from his four-year tenure as Director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Loan Programs Office (LPO). Appointed in 2021, Shah transformed the once-obscure office into a c...
A Clean Energy Playbook For The Global South — Ep196: Lucy Heintz
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Feb. 12, 2025

A Clean Energy Playbook For The Global South — Ep196: Lucy Heintz

The global south needs to build out vast amounts of clean energy, and requires hundreds of billions of dollars annually to do. And yet, only a fraction of the investment going into clean energy and the net-zero transition is flowing into those growth markets. So why are so few investing?Lucy Heintz is partner and head of energy infrastructure at Actis, whose most recent Energy Fund represents over $6 billion of investable capital. She is a driving force behind the small slice of investment w...
Are Big Investors Abandoning Climate Progress? Ep195: David Blood
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Feb. 5, 2025

Are Big Investors Abandoning Climate Progress? Ep195: David Blood

Just a few short years ago, sustainable finance and sustainable investing were all the rage. The Glasgow Financial Alliance For Net Zero (GFANZ) boasted financial players controlling $140 trillion.Things have not been quite as smooth since: There's been extensive pushback, starting from the red states in the US, but spreading from there against ESG. And of course, sustainable finance and sustainable investing are firmly in the crosshairs of the new Trump administration.David Blood is the...
Petrostate USA vs Electrostate China — Place Your Bets | Ep191
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Jan. 8, 2025

Petrostate USA vs Electrostate China — Place Your Bets | Ep191

Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony and Michael get stuck into the challenges and opportunities around the build out of nuclear power, t...
Have We Lost The Climate Argument? Ep190: Lord Adair Turner
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Dec. 18, 2024

Have We Lost The Climate Argument? Ep190: Lord Adair Turner

Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the...
Is The International Order Too Weak To Stop Climate Change? Ep188: James Cameron
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Dec. 4, 2024

Is The International Order Too Weak To Stop Climate Change? Ep188: James Cameron

What was achieved at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan? Where will the promised $300 billion come from, and how will it be spent? And what reforms are needed to make the COP process more effective and impactful?This week, host Michael Liebreich sits down with James Cameron, an international climate lawyer who has been involved with the COP process since before COPs were COPs. James shares his insights into the challenges and dynamics of these high-stakes global talks, from the crucial role of small ...
⁠Can Exponential Growth Save a Finite Planet? Ep187: Azeem Azhar
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Nov. 27, 2024

⁠Can Exponential Growth Save a Finite Planet? Ep187: Azeem Azhar

As we race towards a future powered by AI and data centres, how will the insatiable demand for energy impact the environment? With the richest companies ploughing billions into energy generation, might there be some unexpected upsides for the climate transition? And can exponential technologies address the climate crisis on a finite planet?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, to explore the complex relationship between expo...
Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels? Ep186: Rory Sutherland
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Nov. 20, 2024

Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels? Ep186: Rory Sutherland

How can behavioural science and psychology be leveraged to drive meaningful change around climate action? What unintended consequences might arise from heavy-handed government mandates versus more subtle interventions? And in the face of the climate crisis, is it ethical to actively promote the use of fossil fuels?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael welcomes Ogilvy UK Vice-chair Rory Sutherland to explore the role of psychology and behavioural science in tackling the climate challenge. Rather ...
How Trump & Musk Will Reshape US Climate Action — Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
Nov. 11, 2024

How Trump & Musk Will Reshape US Climate Action — Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington

How will the Trump administration's policies impact the clean energy transition in the United States? What will be Elon Musk's role in shaping climate policy? And what are the geopolitical implications of the US withdrawing from the Paris Agreement?In this special episode of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the implications of the recent US election results and the potential impact on energy and climate policy. They explore the likely policy changes unde...
The Biggest, Dirtiest Secret of the Energy Industry — Ep184: Jonathan Maxwell
184
Nov. 6, 2024

The Biggest, Dirtiest Secret of the Energy Industry — Ep184: Jonathan Maxwell

Could we save billions by simply reducing energy waste? How can we power the vast, energy-hungry growth of AI without sacrificing climate goals? And is Europe doomed to high energy costs and deindustrialisation?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Jonathan Maxwell, CEO and founder of Sustainable Development Capital LLP (SDCL), for the third time on Cleaning Up. Jonathan shares his perspective on the urgent need to address energy efficiency and waste, drawing from the th...
Is There Really an EV Slowdown? Ep182: Colin McKerracher
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Oct. 23, 2024

Is There Really an EV Slowdown? Ep182: Colin McKerracher

Is the shift to electric vehicles really slowing down? Are people losing interest in EVs, or is there more to the story? How will changes in the global automotive industry impact the net-zero transition? And If no one wants EVs, why do we need tariffs?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Colin McKerracher, Head of Clean Transport at BloombergNEF, to unpack the latest trends and dynamics in the electric vehicle market from cars to trucks to two wheelers. They dive d...
What Have the Oceans Ever Done For Us? Ep180: Helen Czerski
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Oct. 9, 2024

What Have the Oceans Ever Done For Us? Ep180: Helen Czerski

Ocean's absorb one third of the CO2 we are recklessly pumping into the atmosphere, as well as 90% of the heat. What would happen if that were to stop?The oceans define every aspect of our planet's physical systems, its ecosystems, human history and human culture. They also define the planet's future. Oceans represent an almost unexplored frontier in the fight against climate change, whether as a host for offshore wind farms, an enhanced carbon sink, a source for critical minerals or a route ...
Slowdown, what Slowdown? The EV Revolution is Just Getting Started | Ep178: Dr Andy Palmer
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Sept. 25, 2024

Slowdown, what Slowdown? The EV Revolution is Just Getting Started | Ep178: Dr Andy Palmer

What will it take for electric vehicles to truly dominate the transportation landscape? Can traditional automakers adapt quickly enough to the EV revolution, or will new players seize the opportunity? And how close are we to the holy grail of fully autonomous driving?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Dr. Andy Palmer, a pioneer in the electric vehicle industry. With over 45 years of experience in the automotive sector, Andy has witnessed the industry's transformation ...
The Great Hydrogen Reset — Is It Germany's Turn? Ep176: Eva Schmid
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Sept. 11, 2024

The Great Hydrogen Reset — Is It Germany's Turn? Ep176: Eva Schmid

Germany is one of the most bullish countries in the world on clean/green hydrogen. The home of the Energiewende is not just one of the most committed countries in the world to reaching net zero, it is of course a highly industrialised nation with a very energy-intensive economy. As if that were not enough, it had one third of its energy supply yanked out from under it as a result of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine.Green hydrogen has become one of the mainstays of efforts to keep the lig...
⁠The Kraken Wakes: Creating the Utility of the Future | Ep175: Greg Jackson
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Sept. 4, 2024

⁠The Kraken Wakes: Creating the Utility of the Future | Ep175: Greg Jackson

How does a startup become the largest provider of electricity in the UK in less than a decade? What is locational pricing and how could it encourage more renewables? And is it possible to achieve a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030?Welcome to the first episode of Season 13 of Cleaning Up, in which Michael Liebreich sits down with Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy, to uncover the incredible story behind the company's rapid growth and its transformation into a global ene...
The Future of Chinese Solar, Battery Myths & Climate Politics | Ep174: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
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Aug. 7, 2024

The Future of Chinese Solar, Battery Myths & Climate Politics | Ep174: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington

In the final episode of Season 12, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the key conversations and developments in the net-zero transition over the past three months.
The Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future | Ep173: Jenny Chase
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July 31, 2024

The Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future | Ep173: Jenny Chase

The solar industry has experienced a meteoric rise over the past two decades, growing from a small cottage industry to one of the leading technologies in the energy transition. It’s not been a smooth ride, and there’ve been plenty of bankruptcies on the way, from Solyndra to Suntech, but more than half a terawatt of new solar is now being built each year and the industry is still growing rapidly. So how did we get here, and how far do we have to go?Michael Liebreich is joined by BloombergNEF...
The Climate Challenge is an Engineering Challenge - Ep171: Dr. Rosemary Barnes
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July 17, 2024

The Climate Challenge is an Engineering Challenge - Ep171: Dr. Rosemary Barnes

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with mechanical engineer and YouTube creator Dr Rosemary "Rosie" Barnes to discuss the critical role of engineering in addressing climate change. Rosie shares insights from her work developing clean energy technologies and her popular channel "Engineering with Rosie," where she tackles topics like wind turbine design, the hydrogen debate, and the nuclear power discussion in Australia through the lens of engineering. Rosie and Michael dive int...
⁠Is the Electric Vehicle Revolution Unstoppable? ep170: Ben Nelmes
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July 10, 2024

⁠Is the Electric Vehicle Revolution Unstoppable? ep170: Ben Nelmes

Electric vehicles are finally becoming more mainstream, but this hasn’t stopped a flood of negative stories and political attempts to scare people away from making the switch to better, more cost efficient vehicles. So is the EV revolution now inevitable? Bryony Worthington sits down with Ben Nelmes, the Chief Executive of New Automotive, a UK-based not for profit focused on the clean energy transition in road transport. Ben shares his insights on the UK and European electric vehicle (EV) market...
Sunak vs Starmer: What the UK Election Means for Climate and Energy - Ep169: Dr Simon Evans
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July 3, 2024

Sunak vs Starmer: What the UK Election Means for Climate and Energy - Ep169: Dr Simon Evans

With the UK general election tomorrow, the Cleaning Up team sits down with Dr Simon Evans of Carbon Brief to run through each party's manifesto, and what they say about UK climate and energy policy. With Labour widely predicted to win, will the UK's become an international leader on climate once more? How will GB Energy work? And where will all the money come from to fund the investments needed to turn the UK into a clean energy power house.Dr Simon Evans is the deputy editor and senior poli...
Battery Recycling Is Here - But Where Are The Batteries? - Ep165: Hans Eric Melin
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June 5, 2024

Battery Recycling Is Here - But Where Are The Batteries? - Ep165: Hans Eric Melin

As everyone knows, battery prices are plummeting and manufacturing volumes are soaring, whether for EVs or for grid-connected storage. And everyone knows there's a problem: only 5% of lithium-ion batteries are recycled. The rest go to landfill, right? Wrong. This week's guest on Cleaning Up is the world's preeminent expert on battery recycling. Hans Eric Melin is the Founder and Managing Director of Circular Energy Storage. Circular Energy Storage is a London-based data collection and analytics consultancy focused on the lithium-ion battery end-of-life market. They help companies and organisations in the entire battery value chain to take better decisions in everything that relates to reuse and recycling of lithium-ion batteries. They do this by continuously collecting, analysing and publishing data from all parts of the value chain worldwide and by working actively with customers in their strategy and business development.
#LightsOn - Live from the Eurelectric Power Summit 2024 in Athens - Ep164: Leonhard Birnbaum
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May 29, 2024

#LightsOn - Live from the Eurelectric Power Summit 2024 in Athens - Ep164: Leonhard Birnbaum

Last week the leading lights of Europe's electricity industry gathered for the annual Eurelectric Power Summit at the Lagonissi Beach Resort just outside Athens. The conference - under the hashtag this year of #lights on - lasted two days and covered the key issues facing Europe's and the world's power sectors. Two topics in particular stood out: the need to accelerate the build out of transmission, and the pressures and opportunities offered by digitization and AI. At the event, Eurelectric published a brace of reports on these two topics. On the final day of the conference, Michael caught up with Leonhard Birnbaum, Chairman and CEO of German utility and distribution grid operator E.ON and President of Eurelectric, on a sunny and windy terrace just outside the conference centre to discuss all this and more.
Audioblog 13: Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions
May 15, 2024

Audioblog 13: Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions

In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, we find how much and how much more governments would have to spend for hydrogen to live up to its hype. This audio blog is adapted from a piece Michael wrote at the end of last year for BloombergNEF, entitled "Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions", which estimated that hitting the Hydrogen Energy Ministerial target of 90 million tonnes of clean energy by 2030 would require subsidies of at least $2.3 trillion to be on the table right now, while the actual figure at the end of last year was 1/10th of that. Although the figures have changed a bit since then, the message remains the same: the subsidy gap remains in the multiple trillions of dollars. It should not therefore be surprising that the news is full of projects being cancelled and delayed. In fact, that will be one of the main hydrogen stories through to 2030 and beyond.
How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun
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April 24, 2024

How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun

Welcome to Season 12 of Cleaning Up! If you want a sense of the trajectory of climate action, you have to understand China, and you have to understand finance. There is no one better to share insights on both than Dr Ma Jun, Founder and President of the Institute of Finance and Sustainability in Beijing.