Episodes

The energy system is not about supply and exports and generation and distribution. It's about how we use energy in our daily lives and workplaces. The so-called energy trilemma, affordability versus reliability versus environmental performance looks very theoretical in the boardrooms of an NGO or a consulting company. But it's not theoretical at all for someone struggling to run their life, do their job and pay their bills. What we need is a system focused on usage, not on supply. Joining ...

Every single scenario for the future that looks at a cleaner energy system has electrification growing to 60, 70, 80% or more, and yet we don't make rapid progress. Why? One of the reasons we don't make progress lies in narratives and culture wars. We hear about heat pumps that don't work, we hear about electric vehicles that don't work, we hear that electrification can't work for high temperature heat and so on, and then we hear a narrative that there is a false solution that will work much ...

This week Cleaning Up is back in Brussels, with a deep dive into European energy policy as the continent grapples with the reality of ambitious climate targets, very high energy prices and the vulnerabilities of first Russia's attack on Ukraine, and Israel and the US's recent attack on Iran. Michael Liebreich sits down with a rising star of the European Parliament, Thomas Pellerin-Carlin, for a timely conversation at the intersection of energy, geopolitics, and climate strategy. What begins a...

What happens when global energy supply chains can no longer be trusted? Has the U.S. given up its edge in the clean energy race to China? And can politics keep up with the speed of the energy transition and the rise of AI? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with former U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of global energy, politics, and clean technology. They explore how geopolitical tensions, from disruptions in the Strai...

The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications. But there is also another story, which is the long term rift between the U.S. and the rest of the world about whethe...

How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central banks should and can respond to inflation, energy volatility, and climate transition. From th...

What happens if we’re underestimating the speed and scale of climate risk? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Ricken Patel, Principal at Climate Hub & Founder of activist network Avaaz, to explore how to build successful climate movements, and the case for research into geoengineering. Ricken argues that companies have been accidentally geoengineering since the turn of the Industrial Revolution, as a byproduct of their pollution, and says ‘it’s crazy’ that research in...

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back into the conversation. Kakaras draws on decades in both academia and industry to explain how decis...

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Varun Sivaram and Steve Smith to explore one of the most urgent, and overlooked, challenges of the AI revolution: how to power it without breaking the grid. As AI demand explodes, hyperscale data centres are emerging as massive, inflexible loads, rivaling entire cities. But do they have to be a burden on the grid? This conversation dives into a groundbreaking trial led by Emerald AI in partnership with National Grid and NVIDIA...

What happens when millions of electric cars become part of the energy grid? And could the key to cheaper, cleaner power already be sitting in your driveway? And why are so many automakers pushing back against EV targets? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington speaks with Fiona Howarth, founder of Octopus Electric Vehicles, about the rapid transformation of the global car industry and the powerful role electric vehicles are beginning to play in the energy system. From her early fasc...

Bryony Worthington and Michael Liebreich give their analysis of the impact of the conflict in Iran on global energy markets. How will it impact the Middle East, Europe, Asia, the US, and will it force countries back to coal, or accelerate the clean energy transition? This episode was recorded Thursday March 5. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gila...

How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities behind the energy transition. From offshore wind and nuclear to grid bottlenecks and data centre dem...

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with investor and energy strategist Laurent Segalen, co-host of the Redefining Energy podcast, for a sweeping conversation that spans carbon markets, uranium trading, battery innovation, and Laurent’s bold plan to connect Canada and Europe with a 5,000km subsea electricity cable. Laurent shares the personal moments that shaped his obsession with energy security, from witnessing Cold War division in Germany to cleaning an oil spill of...

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies. From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of the decade. He also shares how EDP transformed itself from an 80% coal-based utility into a comp...

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with carbon removal insider Robert Höglund, CEO of Marginal Carbon, co-founder of CDR.fyi and architect of MilkyWire’s Climate Transformation Fund, for a deep dive into what’s working and what’s not in carbon dioxide removal and corporate climate action. Drawing on five years of hands-on experimentation funding everything from biochar to direct air capture and policy advocacy, Höglund challenges the dominant “speed and scale” narrative. In...

What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damilola Ogunbiyi, CEO and UN Special Representative for Sustainable Energy for All and Co-Chair of U...

How do we model the climate system? How warm will 2026 be? And can geoengineering be anything more than a bandaid? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with leading climate scientist Dr. Zeke Hausfather on the day the 2025 global temperature data is released. Despite a La Niña year, the planet has just experienced one of its hottest years on record — pushing us ever closer to the 1.5°C threshold. Zeke explains why recent warming has accelerated, how declining air pollutio...

Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe? Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rapidly. It is set to grow from 1.5 billion people today to 2.5 billion by 2050. And it could reach...

How do we build a clean energy system while bringing UK bills down? Can the UK’s landmark Climate Change Act stand up to a fractured climate politics? And does increasing global instability make home-grown energy more important than ever? This week’s episode of Cleaning Up comes to you from inside of the UK’s Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, where last week Bryony Worthington sat down with Katie White MP, the UK’s recently appointed Climate Minister, to discuss her new role, what ...

Is the link between oil and geopolitics starting to diminish? Has climate consensus fractured just as clean energy hits escape velocity? And are batteries, not barrels, becoming the true source of power and security? In the first episode of Season 17 of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack a turbulent start to 2026. From shock geopolitical moves in the Americas and riots in the Middle East to the curious calm of a $60 oil price, they explore whether fossil fuels still ...

This episode was originally broadcast in June 2023, watch the episode on YouTube here. Cleaning Up will return with new episodes January 7th, 2026. Tzeporah Berman has been leading environmental campaigns in her native Canada and beyond for over thirty years. Today, she is Chair of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, and International Program Director at Stand.earth, the environmental organisation that she co-founded. Tzeporah was formerly co-director of Greenpeace’s Global Climate and En...

This episode was originally broadcast in June 2024. As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of heat. Anand Gopal, Executive Director of Policy Research at Californian think tank Energy Innova...

What will be the long-term impact of the US’s great leap backward on clean energy? How will the emergency of China as an electrotech giant reshape geopolitics? And what will be the defining trends and technologies of 2026? In this end-of-year episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington is joined by Lord Adair Turner, Chair of the Energy Transitions Commission, for a wide-ranging, candid, and occasionally fiery conversation about where the energy transition truly stands. Looking bac...

What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Lord Browne of Madingley — former CEO of BP and one of the earliest voices inside Big Oil to publicly call for emissions reductions from fossil fuels. Recorded in front of a live audience in London, the discussion explores how geopolitics, energy security, AI, and r...