Episodes

What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year career. Together they explore the UK’s £60 billion plan to deliver Clean Power by 2030, the race to b...

What does it take for India to deliver electricity to hundreds of millions while simultaneously building a fast-growing clean energy system? Can it overcome its fossil dependence to secure its energy futures with renewables? And how will India’s development choices shape the global climate fight in the decades ahead? India, like China, is home to over a billion people, and is highly reliant on imported fossil fuels and domestic coal. But unlike China, it still has a very rural population and ...

Why should we care about coral reefs? What happens when they collapse? And is there still hope for their survival? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with coral reef ecologist Dr. Katharina Fabricius, who has witnessed six mass bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef over her three decades of research. From the “seven sins of climate change” threatening reefs — heat waves, acidification, storms, nutrient runoff, and more — to the resilience and surprising adapt...

The election of Donald Trump to a second term as President marked a turning point in the politics of climate action – not just in the US, but around the world. The airwaves are suddenly awash with commentators, claiming that the transition has failed, that it was always a fool’s errand, and that we must resign ourselves to a fossil-based future forever. The narratives of failure all revel in pointing out that we have not seen dramatic cuts in fossil fuel use globally, consistent with keepi...

Is the future of clean energy and climate solutions brighter than we think? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Hannah Ritchie — Deputy Editor at Our World in Data, researcher at the Oxford Martin School, and author of her new book, Clearing the Air. In Clearing the Air, Hannah tackles 50 of the most common myths and misconceptions about climate solutions, from “Isn’t climate action too polarised and politically divisive to fix?” to “What happens when the wind does...

What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero? In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australia through fierce political battles over climate policy to now spearheading renewable projects th...

This episode was originally broadcast in February 2024 Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving the travel, hospitality, and transportation industries. As a pilot, Bonny has commanded Boeing, Air...

This episode was originally broadcast in April 2022 Alex Honnold is one of the world’s best rock climbers, famous for his free solo ascents of big walls, including his 2017 first free solo of El Capitan in Yosemite. Alex began studies in engineering at the University of California-Berkeley but dropped out to pursue his passion for climbing, living out of his van. He first attracted attention within the climbing community in 2008 when he became the first climber to free solo Half Dome in Yosem...

What if the energy transition isn't a race, but a steady march toward the end of fossil fuel usage? Do we need to move more like the tortoise, and less like the hare? And in a world of competing narratives, who gets to define "pragmatism"? In this season finale of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack these questions as they review Season 15's most compelling conversations about energy transformation, and celebrate five years of Cleaning Up. They dissect the cu...

In February, veteran fossil industry advisor Dan Yergin and two co-authors published a piece called The Troubled Transition. In it they dismiss the idea that there is or can ever be an energy transition, anchored on the fact that fossil fuels contributed 85% to so-called primary energy in 1990 and still contribute 80% today. Needless to say, their argument has been widely amplified by the oil and gas industry. They conclude with a demand for a new approach – which they call a “pragmatic path”...

Is the US about to enter a new era of energy inflation? Can technological progress outpace political regression? Are we witnessing the permanent end of America's climate ambitions? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Ethan Zindler, former climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, now head of countries and policy at BloombergNEF, to dissect the dramatic shifts in US energy policy. Fresh from the passage of the "One Big Beautiful Bill," Zindler reveals how ...

⁠If the UK can’t ditch fossil fuels, who can? What impact would more drilling in the North Sea have for UK energy prices? What does the end of the net zero consensus mean for UK energy policy? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Tessa Khan, founder of Uplift, a charity challenging the oil and gas industry's hold on UK energy policy. A lawyer turned campaigner, Khan offers incisive analysis of why the North Sea's fossil fuel era must end. Drawing from her backgr...

What if the key to solving our climate crisis lies beneath our feet? Could tiny fungal networks be the unsung heroes of carbon sequestration? And how might reimagining our relationship with fungi transform our understanding of life on Earth? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Merlin Sheldrake, author of the bestselling "Entangled Life," to explore the extraordinary world of fungi. Sheldrake reveals how these remarkable organisms are not just passive participants in ou...

In a world where 17% of all electricity is generated from wind and solar and where 93% of all new capacity added to the grid is from renewables, it can be easy to forget that countries got their first wind and solar resources within just the last few years. And in fact, some countries are still waiting for their first. Today on Cleaning Up, we’re joined by Daniel Calderon, Founder and Managing Partner of Alcazar Energy Partners. Daniel has made it a specialty of going into countries overlo...

In 1849, when the Gold Rush hit California, the people who were certain to make money were not the miners, but the sellers of picks and shovels. Indeed, America's first millionaire, Samuel Brannan, made his fortune by adding huge margins to everyday items that suddenly become high in demand. Today's sellers of picks and shovels are those providing the hardware and infrastructure to the software and platform providers, and one company stands apart as the beneficiary of the recent boom times in...

Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global...

What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development? This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair of the IPCC, to explore these critical questions. Krug offers an insider's perspective, drawin...

What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation. In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including redu...

The world's electricity system is transforming: We're integrating more and more variable renewables. Fossil plants are running fewer hours. Demand is growing everywhere, including in the developed world, as we electrify transport and heating, and AI data centers elbow their way onto the grid. Some people find this very threatening but not Antonio Cammisecra, CEO of ContourGlobal. CounterGlobal is a leading independent power producer who is well on their way to transition away from coal to ele...

Billionaire iron magnate Andrew Forrest believes he's on the cusp of a breakthrough to decarbonise shipping and heavy industry using hydrogen. As the Executive Chairman of the Fortescue, one of the world's largest iron ore companies, Andrew Forrest is not an easy to pigeonhole industrial billionaire. He built Fortescue into a hugely successful company, partly thanks to his belief in taking unconventional paths. After a serious accident meant he had to take a break from work, he enrolled in...

Have the bond markets become a new form of global governance? Are we witnessing the end of US economic exceptionalism? And how does game theory relate to cooperation on net-zero? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with renowned economist Mohamed El-Erian to unpack the complex intersections of global finance, politics, and climate change. El-Erian offers insights into the current economic landscape, exploring how central banks, trade tensions, and technological innovatio...

Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels? "Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050. Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument c...

Geothermal seems to have found new favour under Donald Trump's presidency, but can it ever live up to its potential? Will the oil and gas industry reinvent itself before becoming obsolete? And how might geothermal energy change the global energy landscape? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington talks to Jamie Beard, founder of Project InnerSpace, about why geothermal energy has never lived up to its hype, and whether it has the potential do so. Currently generating less than 1% of globa...

When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those. Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was one of the funders of the built-but-never-used Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline that connects Russia to...