How Ukraine Can Survive Another Brutal Winter | Ukraine Deep Dive 01

News Montage

In the last several hours, Russia has invaded Ukraine, advancing on the country in several directions. // New overnight, a Russian drone has hit the damaged Chernobyl nuclear power plant. // Russia has unleashed what Ukraine says is its largest attack on the country's energy infrastructure since spring.

Michael Liebreich

Hello, I'm Michael Liebreich and this is Cleaning Up. I'm in Kyiv, it's been just over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine. And I'm here to find out what is happening on the ground. First and foremost, how are the people coping with these desperate and difficult circumstances? What about the energy system, how is it coping? What can we in the international community do to help? But also, what do we need to learn from Ukraine's energy workers, how have they managed to keep the lights on? What are the lessons for us outside Ukraine? And I'm also here to visit Chernobyl, which has cast such a huge pall over the world's energy system and geopolitics since that day, April 26th, 1986. So please join me as I travel around here in Ukraine.

ML
This September, producer Oscar and I travelled to Ukraine to film a Deep Dive on how its people and energy systems are coping after four and a half years of relentless attacks from Russia. But before we could talk to anyone in Ukraine, we first had to get there. Since the start of the full-scale invasion in February 2022, there have been no commercial flights so instead, we boarded a sleeper train from the Polish town of Chełm, bound for Kyiv. It departed right on time at 11pm, but just a few minutes later, the train came to a screeching halt, just shy of the Ukrainian border.

ML
Producer Oscar and I are on the train between Poland and Kyiv, and right now we're being held for our own safety at the Ukrainian border because of the risk of attacks on the line ahead of us. Travelling through Ukraine, there's a real and ongoing risk of attacks on trains. Near the frontline, locomotives are a choice target for Russian drones, and while we were in Kyiv, Vladimir Putin chose to send a message by hitting not the train carrying Boris Johnson, but the one behind it, just 2km from the Polish border. We'd been warned by our security team that we might have to evacuate the train at any point during the night. But after 3 hours staring out at the ghostly image of fuel tanks bound for Kyiv, the train began moving again, and we crossed over the border into the inky blackness of the Ukrainian night.

Apart from the initial delay near the Polish border, our 11 hour 500km journey through western Ukraine passed without major incident. And as dawn broke, we could see the enormous apartment blocks of Kyiv ahead of us. But as we approached the city, our phones started blaring alerts about inbound missile attacks. Here we are in Kyiv, we made it.

Oscar Boyd

Under a red alert missile threat.

ML
Yes, I did check. There's the alert app, I did check it just now and everything is yellow in the surrounding region, and Kyiv is a red dot. And there's been a bit of smoke that we've seen on the horizon in the city as we came in on the train. It's extraordinary normality here on the railway platform right now, but clearly it's a city at war.

ML
Safely off the train, and with the air alert over, we set out into Kyiv, trying to get our bearings after a long night on the train. Kyiv is an extraordinary city, in some ways, it continues to feel quite normal, with people going about their everyday lives, basking in the warmth of the September sun, and with shops, restaurants, bars and clubs all still open. The city centre is filled with beautiful old cathedrals dating back a millennium, the kind of monuments that would draw hordes of visitors in peacetime. But then there's the war. You don't go far without seeing a building that's been attacked. Missile and drone alerts ping constantly on your phone, the metro system doubles as a network of bomb shelters. And in front of every major monument in Kyiv, there are memorials to the soldiers killed in the war.

I'm standing in front of Saint Sophia Cathedral. It's one the iconic sites of Kyiv. It's nearly a thousand years old. You can only hope that it's going to be here in another thousand. This is an example of just how jarring the experience is. We're here in a European city, we're surrounded by traffic, by people going about their lives, but also there are memorials to young men from the Azov regiment, many of them in their 20s, they were killed defending Mariupol in the early months, in the early year of this awful war. A visible reminder, in case you could ever forget, that this is a country at war.

While Kyiv may still have some semblance of normalcy, the most intense fighting in the war is taking place in the southeast of the country, along the border with Russia. Kherson is one of the hardest hit provinces. Its main city, also named Kherson, was captured by Russia at the beginning of the war, and then liberated by Ukraine in 2022. Every day it's hit by hundreds of drones and missiles. While I was in Kyiv, I was able to sit down with Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, deputy head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration, to learn about life in the region.

ML
Oleksandr, gracias para pasar un poco de tiempo aqui con nosotros. (Oleksandr, thank you for spending some time here with us.)

Oleksandr Tolokonnikov

Thank you for your support and for your attention in Ukraine.

ML
I started in Spanish because I understand that you've worked in Latin America?

OT
Yes, in Ecuador.

ML
In Ecuador.

OT
For a year I lived in Ecuador.

ML
Describe Kherson to us please, because we outside Ukraine, we read the stories, we see the news, it's a frontline city, a frontline region, and we know that there are attacks on civilians. But give me a thumbnail sketch.

OT
Before the war, Kherson was a flourishing city with a prosperous region all around it. It was the capital of what was a very agricultural region, where we grew watermelons, tomatoes, and many other different kinds of vegetables but now it's very different. At the moment, 70% of the Kherson region is occupied. All the land to the east of the Dnipro river, the entire left bank of the Kherson region is currently under occupation. More than a million people used to live across Kherson province, now there are only 60,000 people living in the city of Kherson. And if we're talking about the whole of the right bank, there are only 142,000 people living there, including in the city. The situation is very difficult at the moment. It's getting harder and harder every year. You've probably heard about drones attacking and hunting down civilians. The Russians filmed these attacks, then posted online and call it civilian safari. Every day we have more than 20 wounded and up to 5 people killed.

Kherson was occupied by the Russians in 2022, and was eventually liberated a few months later on the 11th of November, almost 4 years ago. And when we liberated the city, the Russians started shelling us with artillery, mortars and tanks. But at that time, there were no drones. In June 2023, they blew up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant, which caused a massive flood that claimed many lives and destroyed homes. After that, they began adding different types of weapons. First, there were aerial bombs, which they are still using today. And in August 2024, two years ago, they started using drones. And just to put numbers on it, in August 2024, they used 800 drones over the course of a month. Now we have 1,000 drones a day. So the number of drones they are using now has increased 30-fold. They strike critical infrastructure, they strike people, they strike cars, they strike whatever they see. But at the same time, they continue to shell us with artillery and mortars, and attack us with Shahed drones and bombs.

ML
I was going to ask, how do people live? There’s 60,000 in the city, how do they live?

OT
You know, this is something you also have to understand. When I went to Kherson to work there four years ago, it was already under constant shelling, and I couldn't really understand how anyone could live and work there. I had seen all the videos, and, to be honest, it frightened me to go there. But when you start living in this horror, after a year you become so accustomed to it that you don't even flinch at the explosions. I think that the people of Kherson have already reached a level of psychological resilience comparable to that of soldiers, you know, I've seen it. I initially started working in Kherson as a photographer, I photographed and documented all of this. And when we arrived at the scene of an explosion, there would be bodies lying there, and then another strike would land nearby. But people did not run anywhere in a panic, they simply walked in the other direction. And when you see bodies and body parts every day, sooner or later you get used to it. I've become so accustomed to it that, for me, it's only the smell that is disturbing now. The sight of it doesn't bother me anymore. The smell is my only trigger.

ML
You have been one of the authors of this book, Unbreakable Kherson. Is it your sense that the city is surviving, the community, the society is surviving? Is it moving forwards or is it static, is it frozen by these terrible events?

OT
I believe it is unbreakable. We would like to save all the people who live there by evacuating them but we cannot, because they do not want to leave. So we have to be there and do everything we can to protect them and provide them with all the necessary services. And despite the fact that the Russians try to destroy us every day, we rebuild every day. And even though our city is being torn down every day, we rebuild ourselves every day.

ML
Can I ask, would you like people to evacuate? It's a difficult question, because it's your community, it's the city. But would you prefer, for instance, there are families there, there are children there, there are old people there, would you prefer if they left?

OT
The thing is that the people who have stayed have stayed because this is their home and they have nothing else. And for them, the fear of being killed is much less than the fear of going into the unknown, looking for somewhere to live, living with strangers in an unfamiliar home and having to start over. At least here, they are in their own home. And most of them are elderly people and when you ask them about it, they'll say, yes, I may be killed here, but at least I will be in my own home.

ML
But there are children, there are students, there are younger people as well, or have they mainly left?

OT
Most young people have left, but around 5,000 children still live in Kherson itself. These are the children of families who work there, like firefighters, rescuers, police officers and medical workers.

ML
We are now in September, and there's a winter, another winter, the fifth winter approaching. Are you ready for it? Are you more ready than last year, less ready than last year? What will winter bring?

OT
We were ready at the end of summer, we were ready for this winter. And then the Russians dropped 15 bombs on our combined heat and power plant and started actively destroying all of our heat generation facilities and now they've set us back. But we are continuing to prepare because we know that the people who have remained in Kherson will not leave, even if there is no heating, and we have to do something.

ML
And this was combined heat and power. This is electricity also producing heat. Is that right?

OT
Yes. That particular plant produced both heat and electricity using gas.

ML
And are you rebuilding it as the same thing, the same station, but with better protection? Or are you choosing a different solution for heating and a different solution for electricity using maybe distributed energy or some other solution?

OT
Of course across the Kherson region, we generate plenty of energy from solar power. There are a lot of solar panels and they're still there despite everything. But they're not suitable for the winter. As for the power plant, of course, we would rebuild it differently if we could. But it is only two kilometers away from the positions that are shelling it, and so it's impossible to rebuild it in a completely new way. We can only carry out very, very quick repairs and the people who carry them out are under the constant threat of attack.

As for small cogeneration units, we have those as well. We have even purchased some of them and we'd like to buy more, but we cannot install them because as soon as we bring them to Kherson, the strikes begin. Russian drones are constantly monitoring us, they can see any movement in the city. That's precisely where we would like to install them. But it's very hard to do so. So we're constantly urging people to leave, at least for the harsh winter.

ML
I have in my audience politicians, investors, project developers, leaders of civic society, what would you say to them? What would you like them to do in this very difficult situation?

OT
I would hope that my words make them take the threat of modern warfare more seriously. It's a new type of war and the risks that it poses to any country around the world are enormous. This is a technological war, you could call it Star Wars. And I believe almost nobody is prepared for it. I know that European countries are continuing to produce tanks and they're spending huge amounts of money on this kind of equipment, where each tank costs more than a million euros, but can be destroyed by a 200-euro drone. In Kherson, we were really not prepared for this type of warfare, we were not prepared for these attacks. But if we continue to share these lessons in the book with the countries that are helping us, hopefully they will be able to prepare themselves. If we'd had this knowledge before the war, I believe we would have saved thousands of lives.

ML
So your answer to my question was a warning. Is there anything, or if there was one thing that could be done to improve or to help Kherson, to your city, what would that one thing be?

OT
Why did I give that answer? Because I don't think we should have to ask anyone for anything. Of course, we need things like new electrical equipment, transformers, transformer oil, and a lot of other equipment for our electricity and water supply systems, we need generators and fuel. These are all things that can be bought, but they are not the biggest issue. If we enter into partnerships with other countries, all of that becomes secondary. The main thing is that we start communicating and start building the future together. We know that you are already helping us, and we greatly appreciate it. But we do not want to be constantly asking, we also want to give. So we've decided to do everything we can to ensure that our partners can also gain something from us, namely experience.

And everything else, investment after the war, and everything beyond that, I think that will come naturally. Things will start being built, and they'll be developed on their own. But Ukraine needs to stop asking for these things, and instead become a long-term partner with other countries. Then people in your country who give money to support Ukraine will understand that they're not just giving money away and losing track of where it goes, but that they're investing in a partner and that partner will also help you in return.

ML
You said that you were a photographer, you were taking photos before. Was that your profession before the war?

OT
Yes, I worked for a time in Ecuador. I had a media production company there, and I photographed weddings. But when I moved to Kherson, I became head of the press office, and I was the only person working there. So I worked as a photographer as well as a videographer, and I also curated exhibitions and organised exhibitions.

ML
I really wish you the very best with your current occupation, with your current responsibilities, helping to steer your unbreakable city, an unbreakable Kherson through these terrible times. And I hope that you can get back to being a videographer, a photographer, whatever it is that you want to go back to after this is all hopefully soon resolved.

OT
I want to take only wedding photos after this.

ML
A wedding photographer, what a fantastic vision to hold on to. I just so much wish you luck with that.

OT
Because after the wedding photo, to take photos of the people who died, it's very different.

ML
And of course, the wedding photo should be followed not with death. It should be followed with the babies, with the children growing and so on, I really wish you the very best of luck.

OT
Thank you.

ML
Thank you so much for spending time today with us.

OT
Thank you.

ML
Kyiv is further from the front line than Kherson, but evidence of damage is all around. The main risks are from larger Shahed drones, as well as waves of cruise and ballistic missiles that Russia unleashes every week or so. While Oscar and I were in Kyiv, Ukraine still had no way of shooting down the jet-powered Shahed drones that Russia had recently introduced. So as we walked around Kyiv, we kept one eye on the Air Alert app that everyone uses to monitor incoming attacks.

Air Raid Alert App

Attention, Air Raid Alert, proceed to the nearest shelter.

ML
What does Mr. Map say? Kyiv. Oh, it says red level, which is serious, right?

ML
The app is just one way in which people have adapted to wartime life. Another is the use of diesel generators, which have become ubiquitous on the streets of Kyiv since the start of the invasion.

ML
Here we are in central Kyiv, and what you can see is adaptation and resilience responding to the conditions in which people live. So behind me, you've got a generator. It's about 0.2 megawatts, so 200 kilowatts. Made in Turkey, not operating at the moment, but it's actually been wired in. You can see over there cables which run underneath the pavement. It's been repaved on top, and they go into the buildings. So this is what resilience really looks like. If you're serious about resilience, you've got one of these things on the pavement outside your building, your offices, your shops.

ML
And you can add to that list your restaurants. As we interviewed people in Kyiv, one business's name kept coming up more than any other in the context of resilience. A restaurant called Musafir. Musafir serves Crimean Tatar food, and it has an extraordinary history. Prior to the Russian occupation of Crimea in 2014, Musafir was based in the city of Bakhchisaray in Crimea. Upon occupation however, the owners had to close the restaurant and move their operations to Kyiv, where they now have five locations across the city. Musafir's food has become famous, and it's become known as a place to stay warm during the harsh Kyiv winters. I sat down with the restaurant's co-owners, Sorina Seitvelieva and Emine Emirsalieva, to ask how they've kept their restaurants going through the war. Sorina, Emine, thank you very much for your hospitality, welcoming us into your restaurant Musafir here in Kyiv.

Sorina Seitvelieva

Thank you for inviting us.

ML
We always start by asking who people are and what they do, and I've already given that away. I said that this is your restaurant and it's Musafir. But there's a story behind the restaurant, which is Crimean Tatar cuisine, but you're here in Kyiv. So let's start with the story of what was the first restaurant that you opened and how have you ended up here?

SS
So we first opened in Bakhchysarai in 2008, and it worked for seven years. And then it was forcefully closed with the occupation of Crimea. Coincidence made it so that we opened in Kyiv one week after.

ML
What sort of food? Is this food that your family would have eaten? Is this from...

Emine Emirsalieva

Yes, all of this food and food that we here prepare, it's the food that we usually cook at home.

ML
And your home, that is a Crimean Tatar food?

EE
In Crimean Tatar families, there are also Uzbek dishes in our cuisine, because for 50 years, Crimean Tatars were living in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan.

ML
Is this spicy food? Is it a lot of meat, what sort of food is it?

EE
It's a lot of dough and meat. I can’t say that it's a lot of spices.

SS
It's like pies, like chebureki or yantiq. Our hit is chebureki, people are coming for our chebureki, and I think we have the best chebureki in town.

ML
I'm worried that not everybody knows what a chebureki is.

EE
Well, it's minced meat on a thin dough, which you sort of, how do you say?

ML
Fold?

EE
Fold in this half circle, and then we fry it in oil or on a dry pan. And then afterwards, this dry yantiq, we call it yantiq, the same cheburek only on the dry surface.

ML
So the yantiq, that's the one when you dry grill it rather than sauteed in oil, okay. And what do you eat it with?

EE
Usually we eat it with yogurt. This homemade qatiq is yogurt.

ML
Very important context, I haven't had lunch, so I'm already very much looking forward to maybe trying some of this food. So, best chebureki in town, and I understand that when Keir Starmer, our former Prime Minister came here, he came here and when I next see him, then I'll ask him whether it really was the best chebureki.

SS
Please do. I don't know how many he had in his whole life, but I guess for him.

ML
I don't think Keir Starmer is much of a chebureki guy.

SS
You would be amazed!

ML
Okay, what happened with the full-scale invasion, what happened in February 2022 in those immediate first few days and weeks?

SS
So, everybody tried to... A lot of people simply escaped because there was a lot of unknown, what will happen, how it will be. I think most of the people thought about Crimea's occupation when it was all peaceful, and it was a big problem that actually wasn't. We opened amongst the first to reopen. So, we opened mid-March.

ML
So, you were closed for a few weeks?

SS
Yeah.

ML
People were not probably thinking about restaurants, but then in mid-March, you reopened.

SS
We reopened. So, everybody, I think, all the restaurants started working as the kitchens for volunteers. Of course, there was a lot of provisions, a lot of food, and there was a really huge need because all the markets were closed, all the shops were without any supplies. So, it was actually a very, very interesting time when simply networks of volunteers were organised who were delivering food to people who didn't have any means to get food.

ML
The reason that we're here is that we were recommended to come here by people who said that you epitomise resilience, and you stayed open, and you also have been very welcoming, particularly during the following winters when it started to get very cold, you've managed to maintain a warm welcome.

SS
Yeah, we tried really hard. I mean, a lot of people were coming and saying, we really feel like life is horrible. Please open, because it will give us a sense of normality. So, we sort of scrambled and tried to figure out how do you do that? You don't have a lot of things, your supplies, etc. So, it was quite difficult, but it was full from the first day when we opened. It was very difficult to imagine that something like this would happen, yeah? That there would be a real occupation and armed war. And I mean, any person in his right mind can't see anybody willing to go as far as that. But as much evil that brought, you should have seen Kyiv. Extreme evil brings extreme good. And I think in Kyiv, you could have seen the most altruistic, generosity, whatever you can imagine. So, it was really, really some special time.

ML
And what we heard was that Musafir became synonymous with that.

SS
Thank you very much.

ML
Which is really a credit to both of you. How do you cook? What are you cooking on electricity? And how do you heat?

SS
Basically, what we did was we started buying generators. So, in Ukraine for restaurants, it's forbidden to use gas for cooking. So, we exclusively cook with electricity. Therefore, our generators are now pretty big, which makes it also very expensive in case of no electricity. So, for heating, we have a variety of alternatives because electricity overall gets very expensive. So, we try to make some alternatives, which would make it easier.

ML
And you've managed to continue to operate for four and a half years now in those conditions through the different seasons. You have another winter coming, do you think you're better prepared for this winter? Is it now a system that works pretty well, you feel you'll be fine? Or are you concerned about the coming winter?

SS
I think we are not as scared as it was in 2022 because we survived a couple of winters. But I think it might be worse than it was. I think we are more used to difficulties.

ML
Are you going to stay open? You're going to keep feeding people?

SS
What to do, that's our meta (goal/purpose/aim). Meta is this Ukrainian word.

ML
The chebureki will continue to flow?

SS
We hope so, yeah.

ML
I hope so too, all this talk of chebureki has made me very, very hungry. So, I'd like to thank you for your hospitality, for your time. Thank you very much.

SS
Thank you very much.

ML
With our interview over, Sorina and Emine needed to get back to work and we were ready for some chebureki, yantiq and other delicacies. And I can confirm they were delicacies.

ML
Musafir is an example of resilience at the community scale, but the real heroes in Kyiv are the energy workers, struggling to keep the city's power and heating systems going under constant attack. More than 300 of them have been killed since the start of the full-scale invasion in 2022, many of them in the process of carrying out repairs to the energy system that Russia is determined to destroy.

On the outskirts of Kyiv, I met Oleksandr Kozhukhar, head of the high-voltage network operations department at DTEK Kyiv Grids, one of the biggest energy companies in Ukraine. He showed me around an electricity substation that was undergoing renovation and told me about his team's job working to keep the electricity flowing to the people of Kyiv. So, the attacks happen, a lot of them at night. How does your day start, how do you prioritise? How do you find out what has happened, how do you look after your staff? What do you do first thing every morning?

Oleksandr Kozhukhar

When attacks happen, the most difficult thing for us is the uncertainty. Once the strike is over, we don't know the extent of the damage or whether any of the equipment at the substation or energy facility is operational. We do receive some information from automated control systems, but after the strikes, we always arrange an engineering team to go out to inspect the equipment and the energy facility. After the inspection, our most important task is to restore electricity to consumers who have been disconnected. First of all, we restore power to critical infrastructure facilities, such as hospitals, pumping stations, and heating points.

After that, we determine how quickly we can restore the damaged equipment and what we need to do it. More often than not, we manage to restore electricity supplies to consumers within a few hours or a day. After that, comes the stage of fully restoring the normal configuration of the energy facility, which can take several weeks or several months, depending on the scale of the damage.

ML
One thing that we have heard about is that after an attack, sometimes there's a second attack, they call it double tap. So you may be sending an inspection team, but there's a very high risk of a second attack. Is that something that you and your crews have experienced?

OK
Yes, unfortunately, this does happen, and the Russians often use this tactic. So when we carry out our restoration work, our personnel constantly monitor the security situation and look out for any air raid alerts. We have established procedures for our personnel to follow, and as I mentioned in our safety briefing today, if an air raid siren does go off we have to leave the energy facility and move at least 500 meters away, heading towards the nearest bomb shelter.

ML
Have you lost workers while they've been trying to restore power after an attack?

OK
Yes, there are many employees in DTEK grids who have been killed as a result of Russian attacks and lots of people who have been wounded. We will always remember these people who work to restore electricity supplies, but unfortunately such incidents do happen.

ML
I also offer condolences to your team and also to other energy workers. I know that it is one of the most dangerous occupations after actually being a soldier at the front. So a tremendous responsibility and a very, very difficult role that you play having to lead that team.

OK
That's true, thank you.

ML
The winters have been particularly difficult and we're approaching a winter. Is it possible to be optimistic about the resilience of Kyiv and of Ukraine for the winter?

OK
Winter is traditionally a very difficult period for Kyiv, but all of the energy supply companies, Ukrenergo, the transmission system operator, and Kyiv's municipal energy utilities are carrying out as much preparatory work as possible to get through the autumn-winter period safely and with as few power outages as possible. And that's the same for us at DTEK as well. We're building up stocks of additional electrical equipment for the rapid restoration of the networks. And the most important factor in getting through the autumn-winter period successfully is our people, our workers. That's why we also carry out preparatory measures and training together with the emergency services and energy workers at all levels to prepare us for winter.

ML
If you could ask for one thing that would make your work life easier, would make it easier to keep this system working and to do the renovations you need to do, so if there was one ask from the international community, what would it be?

OK
Making sure there's reliable power supply to the city's consumers is a complex undertaking, so there's not really one answer. But if I had to ask for one thing, I would ask for more air defense missiles and air defense systems to protect the city against attacks. Number two would be all of the electrical equipment we need, things like power transformers, circuit breakers and disconnectors. And number three would be specialised vehicles, many of which have been damaged from the Russian attacks.

ML
Is this for very heavy things like transformers or is it just more normal transport equipment?

OK
Unfortunately, all of our vehicles are being damaged in the war. Our crew cars are damaged and our specialised vehicles are damaged too, the ones that allow us to transport oversized loads and equipment.

ML
This has been a very tough few years, but also with a lot of learning how to keep this system running. So if you had one message, one lesson to teach the rest of the European electricity system, what would it be?

OK
As I said before, ensuring the full protection and operation of the energy system in a state of war is a complex process involving many different components. The main components that we need to ensure the normal supply of electricity to consumers are trained personnel, the availability of backup equipment and protection, meaning protection of the equipment from damage. We have experience, a great deal of experience, we put it into practice every day and are ready to teach anyone who wishes to learn.

ML
I feel we have a lot to learn on all three fronts, in the UK, in the rest of Europe and in the rest of the world. In the news, they say that President Putin is going to be escalating the attacks on the energy system. Do you follow the news, do you just day by day do the best you can? Or are you concerned that there could be an escalation and things could become even harder?

OK
I don't follow the news closely and least of all do I follow what Putin says. But from the data I have and knowing the condition of the power grid, I can see that Russian attacks are unfortunately increasing. But we do our work promptly to a high standard 24-7, and we will continue doing it.

ML
So I wish you the very best with the important work that you're doing. And thank you very, very much for spending time today and allowing us to talk to you and to film.

OK
Thank you.

ML
Since this episode was filmed in mid-September, Russia has indeed stepped up its attacks on civilian infrastructure in Kyiv, targeting bridges, hospitals and especially energy infrastructure.

ML
So that was the first episode in our Deep Dive Ukraine, how Ukrainians and the Ukrainian energy system are coping after four and a half years of war. I want to thank all those who made my trip possible, in particular, Imogen Payter, Heather Buchanan and their colleagues at UK Friends of Ukraine, who've led over 30 trips, bringing members of Parliament and others like me to Kyiv. As well as Gary Edwards and the team at Frontier Global for keeping us safe. Thanks also to everyone who took time to speak with us or show us around. Special mention goes to Dominic Culverwell at the Kyiv Independent and Maria Vlokh for her help with translation. As you can imagine, a trip like this is not easy to organise, so thanks to Jo Jagger for making sure it happened.

To the whole team at Cleaning Up and, of course, to our Leadership Circle, without whom none of this would be possible. And my particular thanks goes to Oscar Boyd, who not only produced, filmed and edited this episode, but who took on the task with surprising cheerfulness. I'm not sure which he should have been more apprehensive about, entering a war zone or travelling with me. Next week we'll be talking to Andrii Gerus, a member of the Rada, Ukraine's Parliament and chair of its Energy Committee, as well as Dmytro Boroday of Horizon Capital, a major infrastructure investor operating out of Kyiv, about how they are building the future of the energy system of Ukraine. Please make sure you've signed up for our free newsletter at cleaningup.live and join us at the same time next week for the second episode of this Ukrainian Deep Dive.

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. If you're enjoying this episode, please hit like, leave a comment, and also recommend it to friends, family, colleagues, and absolutely everyone. To browse our archive of around 250 past episodes and to subscribe to our free newsletter, visit cleaningup.live.